In this episode I speak with the makers of the Tactigon wearable gesture controller, look at scandal in Oxford, DLC in D&D, decolonialising gaming, and much more.
Chris Ward: [00:00:00] . Welcome to the weekly squeak. Your weekly geeky squeak with me, your host, as always Chris Chinchilla This week. I have one interview of the first of many of our posts, CES interviews. This is with tactic on an Italian hardware company who are making quite an intriguing, um, sort of, well, a controller that can be useful. [00:00:27] A variety of different use cases, as you will hear in the interview. But first, let’s get stuck in with my links for the week. I have quite a little interesting collection this week. The first is from the guardian. From Charlotte Higgins. This is called a scandal in Oxford. The curious case of the stolen gospel, anything that involves religious history and Oxford and theft is always adjusting. [00:00:55] It sounds like an episode of Morse In fact, that is mentioned in the article on, surprisingly, this is a story that is still not completely proven, so maybe I should add allegedly to everything I say. Although I am quoting from the guardian, so I’m guessing it’s about me. Who’s going to get into any problems of a sort of circle of academics in a very particular niche space who have been maybe selling very valuable artifacts to religious societies, mostly funded by an America has a lot of these kinds of religious societies funded by big companies. [00:01:28] And there is one in particular that is mentioned here who I think around a hardware store chain. Um, who have been buying artifacts, missing sections of the Bible and missing gospels, et cetera, et cetera, when maybe they weren’t for sale. Uh, and it always seems strange that you just think of, of academics as being like dusty people in a, in a dark room and not really doing this sort of thing. [00:01:51] But I guess the temptation is always there. Things that are very valuable and someone is willing to pay for them, and there is always going to be the temptation, and this is covering the story of a very high profile academic in his field who has maybe allegedly, possibly, probably been doing just this. [00:02:09] And uncovering the trial that leads to that evidence. Yes. It’s like a TV show episode. Quite fascinating. Have a read if this tickles any of your fancies. Next an article, uh, switching to board gaming on quilt from Jonathan K, the article is entitled. Goa are Gods Ghandi and greed lessons, lessons in colonialism from for board games. [00:02:33] This is a report back from GenCon recently, but it’s not really about gen con. It’s about board games that abstract away concepts that, uh, maybe we should be a little bit more attached to, shall we say. Um, I have played. I actually think, I don’t think the game has mentioned in his article, but I have played one that’s somewhat similar, um, endeavor. [00:02:53] And there is a concept of slavery endeavor and you have cubes that represent slavery. But the interesting thing with endeavor is you are generally encouraged not to support slavery. And if you use slavery too much, then it’s actually a negative in the game. So that’s a slightly different treatment of the idea. [00:03:10] But in this post, and interestingly, I tried to get some discussion around this. I didn’t really get anything that wasn’t from white dudes talking about it. It would have been interesting to get some opinions from the people that these sorts of games maybe are more directly, uh, effecting or, uh, ah, uh, using the history and, and sometimes bloody history of, um, and the posts. [00:03:34] Details, a couple of games that deal with the issues in different ways, um, from a fairly abstract economical way. Maybe two ways that, um, not abstract enough, uh, considering that the, the history behind the levels of obstruction and some that kind of turn the idea on its head and treat it in a way that you wouldn’t expect. [00:03:53] So interesting posts. I actually, this would be something I would like to hear from people so you can find out how to get in touch with me and the show. On chrischinchilla.com/contact and my Facebook page or Twitter or something like that would be a great place to get discussion going. I’d love to hear from me. [00:04:10] Uh, but you have a read of the article and then let me know another gaming related article. If Dunson dragons pops its head up several times, um, in my, in my, uh, reading these days. Now this is on polygon again, I think I had quoted from this book quite a few times. From Charlie hall. This is covering Howdens and dragons, or more specifically, wizards of the coast sort of now has kind of DLC for dungeon dragons. [00:04:34] Um, I don’t necessarily know if this is new as an idea. People have had fan created contributions, do tons and dragons for some time, but maybe the way it’s been formalized is, is new, and now we have a term for it from the video game industry that seems familiar. So. Dungeon dragons has kind of different additions. [00:04:52] You have the SRD, this the system reference document, um, where it lists kind of what is public domain. And then everything else is issued under its own different licenses. And if you look back in time, this was also handling it in a slightly similar way with the M D 20 versions of the game. And that’s where Pathfinder came from. [00:05:14] And I’m not entirely sure where that stands right now, but, uh. This has happened before. Kind of open licensing of core rules and mechanics. And then you have things like one bookshelf and the dungeon masters Guild where players can add their own content and charge what they like for it, and as long as they don’t step into the kind of copyright protected areas of content too much, that’s generally fine with everybody involved. [00:05:38] In fact, if you think of the SAS world, this is a fairly standard play. You leave gaps in your core product, so people fill those gaps. They make money and then you also shave a percentage of profits off of them making money. So it’s not an unusual idea to try and, um, as you certainly something I want to try myself in the next few months of contributing some content to places like this, I’d be interested to know what other games have similar ideas to more formal, like every game, of course you can write your own content, but this kind of more formal. [00:06:09] Of selling content, and some of it does get picked up in dragon magazine at cons by wizards of the coast themselves, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s an interesting pathway into becoming a role play writer. Anyway, I haven’t done any tech articles yet, so now it’s time for too before the interview. This first one is from tech beacon. [00:06:27] From Joe Colantonio. This is an article rounding up 10 open source API testing tools. Um, postman has become very popular. I sometimes am slightly worried by a postman because, uh, it’s a proprietary company. It’s a proprietary software, but people have become so reliant on it. I use something called Paul, which I like because it’s Mac native, but it’s still proprietary. [00:06:48] It’s still closed source. So it’s not necessarily any better than using postman. And this article goes through a few. Alternatives to that, that are not proprietary and are not commercial that you might want to look into, although strangely, postman is mentioned on the article. But anyway, uh, but there’s 10 others you could think of, including the intriguingly titled post a woman, uh, and some frameworks for languages specifically that you might’ve encountered before, and many others. [00:07:15] So if you’re into API testing, have a read, have a try, let me know what worked for you, chrischinchilla.com/contact and finally. A post from the MRCs blog from Daniel. Now I’m going to murder this surname. Here we go, Jack. I think something like that. Anyway, I can read the title of the article is how to become a modern medician productivity tips for devs on macro risks. [00:07:38] This covers some tooling I hadn’t heard of. Actually all macro S tools like. Hyperkey and hammerspoon Um, two tools you can use to automate all sorts of key bindings and processes on your Mac. I guess beyond automator, I haven’t dug into this in any great detail yet, or I suppose more aimed at developers somewhere between automator and bash scripts, I guess. [00:08:00] Uh, and actually the Mac has always been very good. That’s automating aspects of it. And even now with iOS, with the shortcut tap and workflows before that, um, Apple’s operating systems have generally been very good at automating at all sorts of levels, from the user friendly visual way, right down to command line tools and things like that. [00:08:18] I’d like to try some of these. Um, there’s a few here that seemed very appealing, especially the ability to kind of tie it to a particular key combination, um, and trigger a whole bunch of things was quite fascinating. I will. Try this myself and maybe have a report back on that in the near future. But if any of this appeals to you in the meantime, go and have a look and have a try and let me know how you got on. [00:08:42] And now my interview with Techtifon talking about there. Just your recognition, Bluetooth connected controller thing. Enjoy. [00:08:52] Nadia: [00:08:52] My name is Nadia and I’m a the business developer or the tactic, and I briefly summarize the story of our company because we were born in 2014. easy newborn brand, eh, we started working into this project two years ago, and uh, in the beginning we started with our first product, which is a tactical one, and the is the emotion sensor. [00:09:35] You need to onboard them, that you can program. And uh, you can use it for different applications according to, uh, your software. And according to the comments you establish. And that was the basis, sir. To a developer in new product. We, the, the Amer of, uh, solving the problem of it, often difficult. The relationship man, Machina, eh, in fact, that, um, the control letter, eh. [00:10:19] As a tactical one, is it hard systems? So, uh, the, eh, the first product has been a boxing, uh, to, um, find out a new sector for controller to become an adjuster controller, meaning that. It’s not the sound thing that you have to held in your hands, but it’s something that the Gipson on your hands, and that leaves a hand, the end finger three to move it in a very natural way. [00:10:57] Chris Ward: [00:10:57] Yeah. Let’s actually talk about the design. The images on the website are pretty clear. Uh, it’s [00:11:04] Nadia: [00:11:04] kind of. [00:11:07] Chris Ward: [00:11:07] I mean, he looks very familiar. I’m trying to think of things that it compares to, but it’s like a, it’s like a handle maybe that you might have on a, on a, on a pot or a cup. Yeah. And it sits in the groove between your thumb and kind of the back of the hand. [00:11:24] So yeah, you have all your fingers free. Uh, as far as I could see, there are some buttons as well on the inside. Um, but then, uh, yeah, you have your whole hand free. And, um, it connects by Bluetooth. So you don’t have any cables either. Um, [00:11:43] Nadia: [00:11:43] but what are the, [00:11:44] Chris Ward: [00:11:44] what are the kinds of emotions that are possible? [00:11:50] Nadia: [00:11:50] Eh, we came back from CSC, you know. [00:11:54] And that we presented our new software just through the analysis and recognition up to now we can recognize the six just goes up from the very easy one up down, right, left the two square shapes like a square. Circle and, and the weekend also do a combination of a, a motion of right tender and the left fender. [00:12:27] If you were, for instance, a two tactical skins. And, uh, these, uh, is it the new version or that is, uh, artificial intelligence on border because, uh, thanks to two, the neural network, we can recognize uh, with the high up. You would see, even if it’s done by different people, because you know, it simple just are done by me, can be slower than if you do it, for instance. [00:13:04] Or it can, uh, have a specific ambulation, um, emotion towards rights towards left and so on. So, um, the aim of using the artificial intelligence here. He is a to do training to the, eh, just the controller so that he can recognize it. And Tom’s meter a jester with eh, accuracy with high accuracy. To explain you this sir, we, uh, prepare the [00:13:37] Uh, we had the exhibition and we, the a robotic armor. And the, uh, the training was done on me. So before coming to this show, I, eh, Treanda there are both through some simple gestures, so through a square is circle and a peach up, down to move in a certain position or to do certain action, like picking up a box or throw it in a basket. [00:14:12] And the saw, uh, when we, eh, we worked to the shore and the unbox, they’re all booked up. We had the scene to connect the eater and the two user because, um, these, uh, has saved the time and there was no need. The oven reprogramming the robot Dharma. Because we moved. So we can see these, the innate, uh, industrial, uh, context. [00:14:46] And these can, uh, saw the, uh, the problem of time-consuming, uh, when are we have to reprogram and our book, or for instance, that research up if they have so and they have to move it, the two of them are from one place to another. Eh, eat the, will allow to, uh, to save time and the no needle, high technological skill to [00:15:19] Chris Ward: [00:15:19] program. [00:15:21] And I mean, actually, you, you look down the, the, the specifications for the device. Uh, let’s just setting aside the, the artificial intelligence aspect at the moment, which is very interesting in itself, but you have, um, Adriano compatibility. Bluetooth low energy, which is also very common. You have the ability for people to load in their own, uh, kind of, um, their own, uh, configurations, um, with whatever sort of programming language they want to use. [00:15:57] Uh, multiple device compatibility, raspberry PI compatibility. There’s a lot here that would appeal to, um. And the flexibility appeals, I think a lot to the kind of hacker community, but I’m guessing from the AI component that this is probably reasonably expensive. And I’m guessing more aimed at industrial users and business users, but maybe I’m guessing wrong. [00:16:25] Nadia: [00:16:25] So, uh, when we started our project that we had that in mind. It’s specific targets that were makers. So those people who love technology, love coding and love do on their own now. And we wanted to give them the possibility to create their own applications. So with movement in a easy way, in fact, you should know that the hour pass, the context of. [00:17:00] Yeah. We ask. He led the in emotion detection and just the recognition because in the previous years that our first product line, uh. What was the end E’s? Steam today, eh, line of product or to collect the data, uh, in environmental and structural monitoring. So, eh, landslides or inclination. Or steel and so on. [00:17:31] So, um, uh, what do we call it? The geo technical monitoring. The fact there was that the, these kinds of monitoring was a very, eh, niche market them. So, uh, we wanted to reach also the B to C. Mark at the end, the nor the we had the to simplify or the things, so we put the order, our knowledge in the background of the product and the left deep, the weed, the SDK, Arduino, so that, uh, even young learners from young learners, most skill as a software developer can, can use it. [00:18:16] And you work. You are right that when you said that, that, uh, uh, there are also industrial, um, industrial sector, uh, involved, uh, because, uh, as I told you before, we started with makers. Dar, I get the about the, as far as the project went onwards and we pass it last year, all around the world in exhibitions and, uh, conferences in order to talk and present the gonna and tactical skin to collect the feedback from, well, some people. [00:18:53] And, uh, we, uh, met also, uh, important companies with which we are now. Uh, we are now started the aim corporation in order to, uh, develop a vertical solution, not for, for the market. So, for instance, to give you a couple of examples, Arab Aerobotika, eh, our partnership is we, the, the Italian company come out, which is part of the guys lab, a group and the, eh, we are now developing the controller of their car boat in dough. [00:19:33] I saw an , uh, Kubota, and we have a war candor with the Nakia and the last year, eh, on the occasion of the five G presentation, because, uh, um, because of the, eh, CEO. All the oranges, uh, wanted to show the speed and the, uh, the real time, uh, feature of the fight Jeep. . The CEO was pleased that Inn was in Paris, and this comment was placed in the Marcella, so 700 kilometers far away, and through our scheme. [00:20:24] So I would just a controller, he, uh, worried on, in, on the sound and the control, the show with the real time controller through our divisor and the, through the five G. So these are some of the most important use case we have. Now. We have some open cooperation onwards that are going all words. [00:20:53] Chris Ward: [00:20:53] And do you think there might be a, a a, a more simple model maybe for that initial maker. [00:21:00] A user group as well, or that’s probably a small market. So you’ll probably leave it behind now. [00:21:08] Nadia: [00:21:08] No, no. We do not want to, to leave these market behind. We are proceeding in parallel. So, uh, dr Gawande is a stealer, uh, uh, sees two years on our website. That the Ganette scheme that they just sort of control, is that the newest product? [00:21:33] And we will go, now it is on sale as a developer. So meaning that we, uh, we work up. We, the industrial partners, uh, or, uh, developers who wanted to develop a specific application. So the developer Kita as the device itself, we do a SDK, , Verizon to, to developer, and also our support. Of course. And we will come on the market to weed that they just don’t control in the next few [00:22:13] Chris Ward: [00:22:13] months. [00:22:14] So the, the one I’m seeing on the website, the, the, the grip, like device, that’s the new one or the old [00:22:21] Nadia: [00:22:21] one. The green part is the new one. So. The first family, the first product of, [00:22:32] Chris Ward: [00:22:32] Oh, I see you. That’s the board. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That makes sense. And just, uh, the, the AI aspects, I mean, you’re a European company. [00:22:42] We love to talk privacy and security in Europe. The artificial intelligence aspect, is that on device or is that in cloud? [00:22:52] Nadia: [00:22:52] Um, in cloud. So it’s a, um, our, uh, uh, software, let’s say, uh, the algorithm on the, on the device as a specific features of artificial intelligence. [00:23:11] Chris Ward: [00:23:11] Okay. Okay. Um, so the, the device connects to the internet itself or through a phone or something like that or through a device? [00:23:21] Nadia: [00:23:21] No, the, the device connects Bluetooth. Any device that we’d look to, to, so, uh, we can go from robotic arms to be seat tablet or smartphone. It’s through that we can expand this product the way, the way five for instance, or a GPS or a other kind. Any other kind of a, a feature. We should find that in application, you know, then to this. [00:23:54] Chris Ward: [00:23:54] And so looking at the, the tactic in one for a minute, um, what sorts of use cases did people end up. Coming up with, [00:24:04] Nadia: [00:24:04] uh, so we were, they were purchased, for instance, by university, any of our cities. And, um, they, uh, they tried to, uh, they, they started projects, uh, related to, um, motion detections for robotics. [00:24:28] So steel, again, educational. And, but, uh, it started as a no other, uh, customers who purchase the, uh, this product that has known no share that we’d asked them project the most, uh, the most, uh, saw the application is in fitness. Sir. Because a, we use the a sense sort of to tracer the strengthen the speed during the, uh, the performance. [00:25:00] And these enables for instance, trainer to understand the, uh, how the training is proceeding and that which aspect the have to be, uh, changed or improved through a software. [00:25:18] Chris Ward: [00:25:18] And, uh, so what’s the, what was the feedback you’ve had at all the various events? Uh, the past few months? I mean, specifically CS, which is, despite some of the products that are displayed is largely meant for consumers, but this is not necessarily a consumer device or what was the kind of feedback you got. [00:25:39] Nadia: [00:25:39] So, uh, the feedback in gen ed on it is positive, especially for the particular form of Facteau. And, uh, what we actually saw at CES is that the others are, uh, uh, going on the same path as we are already now. And so this means that the is. A bad thing. But also it means that a, there is market. Okay. So there is a request from, from the market and that there is also space on the market for the solution. [00:26:22] Like these, uh, people like in general, the effector not to grip in device. So, uh, the possibility to wear it and the, uh, free. And they like also flexibility in the sense that you can use one device and change application. Because a, now we have developed the summer sketches, uh, in our headquarters. Um, and did you go a freestyle? [00:26:57] Some you do a book. You can see some DDoS applications we created here in our headquarters. And for a final user, the aim is to, uh, keep it simple so they can download the, these, the sketches that it from our marketplace and installer on dr Guna scheme and the user, the device . So we pre schedule it commons, so preset, uh, but, uh, we can also, uh, do the possibility or programming. [00:27:41] So two levers of use, age, and that changing the application means that you install it in your sketch on the devices. So you can go from . Uh, applications to a domestic or to, uh, I don’t know, robotic or controlling or, uh. Manual, navigation, power, PowerPoint, patient management, and so on. [00:28:13] Chris Ward: [00:28:13] Power. I like the fact you’ve called for industrial applications to PowerPoint. [00:28:21] Nadia: [00:28:21] We a, yes. Eh, eh, it product, uh, we, the three 60 degree ideas. And so to me that both the India business and the, in their everyday life, [00:28:41] Chris Ward: [00:28:41] you also have a really interesting example of the VR game here as well in the, which is, which is quite interesting. I mean, VR kits are expensive at the moment anyway. And this is, this is nice because it feels quite natural. [00:28:55] Um, you can, you can do whatever you want with your hands. I mean, in the, in the image, the, the guy is gripping, like he’s driving a car, but it doesn’t actually have to, of course, the controller doesn’t need that. It’s, it’s him, him doing it cause he wants to, which is interesting, you know, so it’s up to you what you do with your hand. [00:29:16] Yeah. It’s kind of interesting like that. [00:29:19] Nadia: [00:29:19] Yes, exactly. Because says you can establish like the guy in the picture or you can establish that you should turn to your right hand right today and then the car turns. Right. So it’s up on the program and how you choose to use your, [00:29:37] Chris Ward: [00:29:37] which is nice. I liked that. [00:29:38] The other, the freedom thing is quite interesting. It’s just a one other question on the hardware. Bearing in mind the probably potential industrial use. What’s the, what’s its resistance? Is it water resistant? Uh, what kind of heat resistance does it have? That sort of thing, kind of resistance, so waterproof, heat, et cetera. [00:30:00] Nadia: [00:30:00] Eh, this is a big technical question. [00:30:09] Chris Ward: [00:30:09] At least hope that the waterproof is probably, there’s probably [00:30:14] Nadia: [00:30:14] not any electronic boards [00:30:17] Chris Ward: [00:30:17] exactly. [00:30:21] So, uh, I mean, this is obviously is still in development right now, but, um, what’s the, what’s the main plan for the next six months or so? [00:30:31] Nadia: [00:30:31] Yeah, so a actually product is, let’s say, ready, because it seems final prototype. So what do we have now going to do apart from finding a partner? So for application development, we are going to, uh, [00:30:53] In the next few weeks, in the next week. I’m not the full product development in this case, final stages. So this is also the main different difference that we have with others. Maybe on platform. Um, so like a Kickstarter or Indiegogo because the product that really exists and, um, and that it has been tried also, it has be used and there are use cases. [00:31:22] So what do we now need? The is the final push. To go on. The market does. So finance, engineering of the product, eh, and production. And these is our, um, our idea and the, of course, uh, we will proceed with our marketing activities and search. Florida dangers. Who knows that that wants to invest in our [00:31:57] going and find going on the market with document scheme? [00:32:02] Chris Ward: [00:32:02] Do you have a much, well, much knowledge, I suppose probably more from research of. Industrial type devices being successful on Kickstarter? I am in my, it’s just my own main experience is usually just as a consumer. But I just wondered if you, um, if you’ve seen many examples of that. [00:32:25] Nadia: [00:32:25] Oh, where in this specific, uh, I, I’m, I cannot reply you in this moment. I know that, um, what do we want to reach? It is not the, a very high, uh, I can say God. So if it comes that school, then. Okay. Uh, but the, what do we want to reach, uh, the basis to proceed? The factor on we, the final engineering up, going and go on the market because, uh, you know, uh. [00:33:03] We also need that feedback from some usage in order to correct the product and the proceed with optimization. So it’s important after more than one year that we can find out as a result [00:33:24] Chris Ward: [00:33:24] and out of all the. Uh, events you’ve done and people you’ve seen trying the device and things like that. Um, what’s, what’s been the most interesting and surprising use case you’ve seen people try with the, the [00:33:39] Nadia: [00:33:39] tactical. [00:33:41] So if we, we speak of a common people in everyday life. Absolutely. The gaming, yeah. Is that the most successful application? Eh, also, because it’s very easy. So we, uh, interface, uh, with the most common games now, Zo, Minecrafter, [00:34:08] and the us nine. So in this particular case, as fund nine was the demo. We had the, in the, in the exhibitions and the, it was, uh, easy for people to use it too because a, we, the simple movement of your wisdom, you’ll, uh, dining the car. So you control it in the car and going right left. And that we, the, and what I haven’t told the York is that the device has also four keys on the back. [00:34:39] Yeah. The 14th corresponding to your fingers. So these are GIPSA caught months, so you can add comments to just, so these end, the second most requested application is the PowerPoint. So the, there’s like the management. Yes, and the . [00:35:01] Chris Ward: [00:35:01] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The robots, the PowerPoint’s a bit depressing, but yeah, [00:35:14] Nadia: [00:35:14] the idea that you, you are free and the depends that you can impress your audience. Is that something that moves the interest of people towards these applications, in my opinion. [00:35:31] Chris Ward: [00:35:31] When roughly, do you think the Kickstarter will start so people can keep an eye open [00:35:35] Nadia: [00:35:35] for it? So these, [00:35:41] because we are now defined of all the background of this campaign. So we need the tool targetized eh, our audiences and to find out the, exactly, where do we have to stress? So this is the final part. Once a week. Our lady with these, we want to start about the, actually, we do not want to wait too much. [00:36:11] Chris Ward: [00:36:11] I saw there’s a mailing list if people want to sign up for it. [00:36:15] So that’s the best place to get information. Yeah. [00:36:19] Nadia: [00:36:19] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We do do all those who subscribe. Uh, we monthly updates about what activity we release the novelties and the, what’s new on the software, on new applications and so on. So everyone is informed. [00:36:42] Chris Ward: [00:36:42] Brilliant. Okay. Thank you very much for that. [00:36:45] Um, I have signed up to the mailing list. I could imagine as being really good fun for making music as well, actually. Uh, [00:36:55] Nadia: [00:36:55] yeah, you’re right, because the, in a couple of exhibitions and eat happened to me too, to speak to some players. And the guitar players in particular, and they find it very interesting because it is quite equal to the [00:37:15] Chris Ward: [00:37:15] bass guitar, four strings and all. [00:37:19] There’s been instruments like this in the past. The Thurman. Uh, and some others. So the thought of using gesture for music is not alien to people. Um, so, um, yeah, I, I’ve seen some really interesting demos of that kind of thing. It’d be, yeah, it’s kind of, it’s this ability to. To make music in new ways. You know, we have this sorts of gesture technology now. [00:37:43] We can make different sorts of music that weren’t possible before because of it, and get notes and melodies that we couldn’t make before. It’s kind of interesting. That was my interview with the tactical on, I hope you enjoyed that. So, uh, I have a few articles and. Uh, podcast episodes coming up, and we have the next episode of the doc’s podcast recording this Sunday. [00:38:06] So that should be out about the same time as the next episode of weekly squeaky next week. I have a few articles coming up, um, soon as well. My coverage of Kang featuring the interview I did, uh, with Kong a few months back. Um, some posts, Ts coverage. Um, all sorts of things. Actually going to have a firstname.lastname@example.org slash writing I am continuing to do more editing of board game manuals. [00:38:31] If that’s something you’d like me to help you with, then please do let me know and events. I will be at sustained summit and foster them at the end of January. Then after that OB heading to Manchester for a little bit, not for any particular event, just to check the place out. So if you are in Manchester, I would love to meet up to say hi and shortly after that I am heading to mega calm in Jerusalem to give a documentation testing and automation talk. [00:38:59] So maybe you see that some of those, until next time, if you have been. Thank you very much for listening. Please share rate review wherever you heard the show, and I will talk to you again next week. .