In this episode I speak with Paul Kuijf of learned.io, look at the new Lovecraft film, burst some bubbles, learn new languages, and much more.
050220_mixdown Chris Ward: [00:00:00] Welcome to the weekly squeak. Your weekly geeky squeak with me, Chris Chinchilla. And yes, the astute amongst you would have noticed that last week there wasn’t a weekly squeak. That was because the first half of the week I had a really heavy cold and in the second half of the week I was in foster him and it just didn’t quite happen. [00:00:23] So sorry about that. But, uh, we are back. I am back. And this episode as well as a handful of links. I have an interview with Paul from learned.io a platform that is looking to see how staff can be retained and not lost and all the costs associated with that. A loss that to companies often have to ensure same. [00:00:49] Come back to that soon, but first the mile links for the week. Starting with definitely some more technical ones. The first is an article on Zed D net from Liam tongue. Uh, this is a big update to wine. Wine is one of those applications that actually, I wasn’t even a completely sure that it was still. [00:01:11] Gumming but, uh, it is, wine five is a huge update with over 7,000 updates and features. And it’s also now being, Oh, maybe it was Wilson, I’m not sure. Comb maintained by Microsoft and it helps you run windows 10 applications on Linux and also actually a macro S um. I haven’t also probably used one for so long because I’ve been lucky enough to have a parallels account for sometime just running an entire VM of windows, which is probably overkill, but I have the disc space right now. [00:01:43] And I’m also running a few games in slightly odd applications that, well actually I’m going to try it and see if they do run in one, but ah, I’m not 100% sure if they would, especially games, but maybe I’m going to see. Um, but yeah, if that is your thing or sounds appealing to you for those obscure windows applications that we all sometimes still have lying around that you want to run on your Mac or Linux machine, then take a look first, a fairly lengthy post. [00:02:08] That’s a, I must admit, bits of it lost me. Bits of it. I found very interesting from the brave blog by brave. Uh, there is no necessarily author here. I know there’s a few people. That’s why. Um, there’s about four or five authors, lots of people with doctor in front of their name. Anyway, I’ll stop digressing. [00:02:26] This is brave one performance methodology and results. There have been a few posts and tweets recently about Braves performance and how it is better than many other browsers. Chromium, so kind of like Google Chrome and other browsers, but strips away a lot of tracking and all these kinds of things. This is often how you speed up browsers. [00:02:47] Actually. Um, I was using brave with, um, I really liked it. Uh. Up until recently I switched to Firefox mostly, but there’s some sketchy ethical reasons around the founder and creator of brave, which. I maybe feel slightly uncomfortable. Uh, I wasn’t, I wasn’t sure about them, but also actually more practically speaking, the sync feature just does not do it for me. [00:03:14] It only syncs bookmarks. I like having a open taps to be syncable and other things as well. And frankly, even that doesn’t really work very well. I was frequently a get back, but Mark had already removed and all sorts of things and actually bookmark, sinking. I know there are other options and alternatives and I was using some of them. [00:03:33] Like adding links into Evernote and all sorts of crazy things instead. Um, but that is actually quite important to me. I like that sync to work and with bravery. It really doesn’t right now. But anyway, if that does not bother you and you or, and, or you really like looking at statistics on webpage load speeds and take a look at this post, because there’s quite a lot of detail here that will really interest you. [00:03:57] Lots of graphs, lots of statistics, lots of numbers, and as an opensource project, lots of explanation as to how they did it as well. Sorry if that’s your thing. Go take a look. Continuing in the, uh, I guess going into detail about things that we will kind of know. Here is something actually from the Reuters Institute, from Dr. [00:04:20] Richard Fletcher, the truth behind filter bubbles bursting some myths. This was interesting for a couple of different ways. So the, the Subutex is many voices warned that social media may be filtering out and use. We dislike. He is what the research says about it. And whether this may be a post on a more Beatty sites, you might interpret that as being, um, something that proposes that’s wrong. [00:04:43] Or something like that. But this is actually an academic piece. So this is more about presenting the facts and also a lot of nice summary and explanation about what that even means, what a filter bubble actually is. It’s a term we refer to and use a lot, um, without probably a lot of people really understanding what they mean when they say it. [00:05:03] So that is also interesting if, if you never really knew what that meant and would like to know more than, this is a great post as well. It actually breaks down each kind of section of what, uh, an aspect of a filter bubble is what it means. Showing you some facts, showing you some charts again. So it’s actually very, very interesting post for anyone who’s interested in understanding a bit more about what it means, but also getting a very. [00:05:29] Factual presentation about what it means as opposed to an opinionated, uh, expression of what it means. So I found it very thankful. Oh, sorry. I was very thankful for it. And very useful. And uh, yeah, just very to the facts, good old kind of way a research piece should be. And actually the article concludes with, I guess the clickbait, the question posed in the subtitle is that. [00:05:54] Should we or should we not focus on filter bubbles? And the author’s conclusion is yes and no, but more that we often use filter bubbles as an excuse for not looking at other reasons behind things. And this is something that always gets my attention when people say, well, actually it’s too easy just to say, Hey, look, it’s this reason and an ant not look at the other reasons. [00:06:18] And that is the interesting conclusion of the post that I urge you to get to the bottom wall. And I don’t know. Okay. We’re getting out of the technology kind of angle now into some other things. This was an article on Nautilus from Claire Cameron, the five languages that could change the way you see the world. [00:06:34] I love language. I love the study of language. I love learning about languages. I’m not necessarily very good at learning languages, but I love learning about them anyway. And this caught my attention because I haven’t counted a few things recently, especially in code breaking. Um, this was an issue that, Oh, not an issue, but a topic that is discussed, a fair bit around how language can dictate the way that you write ciphers and things like that. [00:06:59] So in world war II, in the American army, in the Pacific, um, theater. Use the Sioux tribes, often speakers as a site, as code a code. Um, the word code operatives, I’m not sure because the Japanese had a very slim chance of being able to understand what they were saying to each other because it’s an obscure language that has certain constructs that people don’t know about. [00:07:25] I also read recently a book. Um, I cannot remember what it was about exactly something I committed. It was about what I with it was about, about a tribe in the Amazon rainforest that, uh, an academic and linguist lived with for some time. And their language. And they have a very unique language. And again, the way they construct sentences and things like that, influences and is influenced by the culture in their daily life. [00:07:53] And this is kind of what this post is about. So it poses a Clare poses here. Things like languages that don’t have any concept of the future languages, unlike English, that do not orientate themselves in their environment by thinking of themselves as the center of it. So in English, we often say, um, go forward, go left. [00:08:17] Um. And that is not necessarily how many other people think. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s interesting to look at languages and realize how they dictate the way we think. And this is something that intrigues me a lot as I travel around the world a lot and hear people’s languages and have. The certain extent, knowledge of French and German, and really you do see how language does influence culture so much. [00:08:44] Um, and vice versa. And it’s quite fascinating. And this article specifically tends to focus on some more obscure languages, but, uh, it’s interesting. Anyway. Next on slate from arose. Everlast is a lab grown meat, really meat. I am mostly vegetarian. I don’t really like meat. So these sorts of articles interested me because they get into the, well, generally they get into the aspect of the ethics. [00:09:09] Uh, if an animal was not slaughtered and did not grow up in captivity, is it not that bad too? Not killed him because they were never quote unquote alive in the first place or not directly. Obviously the meat is kind of genetically created from extracts of an animal at some point, but you know, over time that I guess becomes more abstract from the source. [00:09:33] But what this article is actually about, this is not that there’s a whole other discussion. It’s about labeling. Um, and the arguments going on in the U S at the moment about who should regulate and label that grown meat. Should it be, should it be the department of agriculture or should it be. The food and drug administration. [00:09:56] Um, which in my mind seem some crossover. But yes, and this is the problem at the moment, it no one is entirely sure. And generally the department of agriculture is being lobbied by various farming groups to not let them be managed by the department of agriculture. And in fact that they should not even be down to use the term meat or beef or lamb or whatever it happens to be. [00:10:24] Um, I don’t know, actually, in some respects, I think the food and drug administration kind of makes it a little bit more sense. Uh, the fact that it’s food and drug is often intriguing to me, but anyway, by the by, um. And I sort of see this, and there have been other discussions in the world, uh, around this when it comes to milk. [00:10:44] Things like dairy milk versus all other types of milk, should it be called milk. Many of the milk alternative companies chose that word on purpose because it was familiar and a lot of people in the dairy industry said, well, it’s not milk. Or is it, so we’ve been here before. Um, yeah. So not even getting into the ethics of the whole conversation and of course at the moment, even the expense, but labeling what actually is lab grown meat and the discussion has gone even more matter I suppose, into the discussion around meat free burgers and things like that that have no idea. [00:11:21] Low concept of meat whatsoever, and many farming lobby groups say they also should not have the words meat in them. Interesting times a, this will play out differently in different countries, I guess. And it may be that as is typical with these sorts of situations that consumers end up dictating what it is they want. [00:11:40] And that just becomes the, uh, the Durga and not necessarily what the various authorities want it to be. But we shall see. I would love to hear opinions on this piece, especially. Kristin chilla.com/contact. Find a way to drop me a line and we can get your opinions on what you thought. And finally, um, this was covered in a few places. [00:12:04] I’ve specifically got here an article from a comic book.com by Patrick, uh, Kevin around, eh, yet another attempt to make an HP Lovecraft. Um, feel. Yeah, I think it was a film, not TV show on the color out of space. Um, with the Nicholas cage in it. Bizarre Liam show. He’s been in some Lovecraft before, I thought. [00:12:30] Anyway. Um, and these have never been done that well. Lovecraft is hard to get right in film for a variety of reasons. Um, but this is. Another attempt, and a lot of people have been saying that this is going to be the one that everyone who’s waiting for, so we shall see. I watch the trailer, have a look at the trailer, let me know what you think. [00:12:53] Will it be or will it be a another let down. Now, in a similar vein, not directly related, but closely related, I am super excited that coming out later this week, I think Friday or Sunday, I can’t quite remember. To Netflix. So I think global date of the 7th of February will be a TV adaptation of locking key lock and key was one of my favorite comics ever. [00:13:18] And it has some loose Lovecraft metaphor in it, especially that they actually live in a place called love Lovegrove. So those two, uh, outputs coming soon and we will see how they are treated. But if you’re into your cosmic Cora, then. It’s time to get it. That was my links for the week, and now I have a short interview for you with Paul from learned. [00:13:45] Paul: [00:13:45] Learns is an AI powered Stella management platform that helps organizations to retain and improve their employees and how it works. We start by modernizing traditional performance management processes such as appraisal interviews and get our data from this and use this data to come up with individual skill profiles per employee. [00:14:02] So every employee has his or her own skill profile of skills rather than for him or her, and then subsequently match the skill profile against all internal career opportunities within the organization, thereby allowing employees to map out their ideal internal career. [00:14:16] Chris Ward: [00:14:16] And my main background is in the tech space. [00:14:19] I’m guessing they’re probably have some, a reasonable amount of clients in that space. And I know retaining staff is often a. Expensive and a big problem. There’s a lot of options. I’m speaking to you from Berlin, you’re near Amsterdam. They’re both kind of places where there’s lots of opportunities and it’s very easy for people to change jobs. [00:14:40] So I’m guessing this is kind of the problem you’re trying to solve. [00:14:44] Paul: [00:14:44] Yeah, that’s the main problem actually, because we’ve also seen, um, well, it’s nice we started this, I started this together with my two brothers, so it’s a family business. And before we were doing this, we all had some, uh, place of employment, uh, employment elsewhere. [00:14:59] And what we noticed in all three of our jobs is that internal opportunities were not available and not discussed with our managers because those managers simply did not benefit us from moving elsewhere within the same company. So we were just doing our jobs and we had no insight in what we could do one year for years, four or five years from now. [00:15:19] Well, at the same time, we were contacted by recruiters from other companies on a weekly basis if we want to start working elsewhere. So there was like this misconception on what we could do with our career, uh, at this company in which we were still employed, while there were so many opportunities to start working elsewhere. [00:15:39] So, uh, yeah, that eventually cost us all free, mature and start working at a different company. So. That got us thinking this, this had to be done smarter and more efficiently, and it could really help those companies. Just making up shrooms is insightful and discussing them and thereby allowing employees to actually continue working within the same company. [00:16:00] Chris Ward: [00:16:00] And I’m guessing this is a two part problem. A technology solution is only one half of the problem. If the company just still doesn’t really pay any attention to it. So how do you, or how does. How does the platform and the, and the company convince people that this is a good idea or our companies already kind of on board and just looking for a solution? [00:16:23] Paul: [00:16:23] Um, well, we already, uh, started working with almost 50 companies now for over a year, so we’re already starting to see the first results. Uh, and of course, what you say is true, we deliver a tech platform, so a bit of technology, but. In the end, it’s the people who have sort of due to work and mainly a management, HR managers within those companies have to actually carry this project within the organization. [00:16:49] Uh, but in order to make that a success, we provide a library implementation program in which we take the customer by the hand and just, um, our providers step-by-step solution, provide enough, uh, followup and support contact moments. So actually helped our company, not only. Um, yeah, set up a piece of software, but actually start using the software within their daily work routine. [00:17:15] Chris Ward: [00:17:15] And I guess one of the big selling points is probably cost of bringing on new people and the struggle of finding them. Um, especially in smaller cities, like again, like Amsterdam, it’s not the biggest place in the world. Often they have to get probably people from elsewhere to fill those gaps, which is not cheap or easy. [00:17:38] Is that the main kind of a selling point that. Th the metric that people measure or you know, the cost of replacing existing talent? [00:17:47] Paul: [00:17:47] Yes, exactly. So part, we want to prevent our people from leaving, so that will save you a lot of costs and we want, thereby at the same time, present that you have to start looking for people elsewhere. [00:17:58] So internal career mobility. So we save in recruitment costs, we saved an onboarding costs and saving training costs. [00:18:06] Chris Ward: [00:18:06] Do you find that there’s a particular company size where this starts working at? Um, and a smaller companies will have less opportunities, obviously. So is there like a minimum size? It starts to work out. [00:18:17] Paul: [00:18:17] Uh, well, so far we’re focused on SME companies ranging from around 50 to 500 employees. Ideally, we will start to aim for bigger companies, 500 employees, and higher. Uh, those bigger companies require some technical specifications for a platform like integrations with core HR systems, uh, which we will have integrated within the coming six months. [00:18:41] So, so far. Targeting some smaller companies, which also works, uh, very well because, um, not only do we promote internal mobility to help employees reach their next step, we also use their employees skill profiles to match them against their current role within the organization. So actually start developing, uh, within their current role. [00:19:01] So what do I have to do to become better in my daily job right now? This is also a piece of insight we provide and the tools to actually. Yeah, improve the skills she needs on a daily basis. So within these smaller companies, our product also works a a very good, and over the coming months we will be targeting the large companies as well. [00:19:21] Chris Ward: [00:19:21] Okay. And let’s actually dig into some of the details of how the platform works. You’ve talked. A little bit about developing, uh, the E or existing skills and lifelong learning. So not just changing jobs, but actually getting more out of what you’re currently doing. Um, and then also maybe progression. Um, so what are some of the features that you offer to help people stay. [00:19:48] Paul: [00:19:48] Um, well, on the basis, like I said, it started with, uh, providing employees with their own skill profile and how those works. Uh, our platform provides performance management tools. So we provides a module for exchanging feedback. We provide a module for having coaching conversations, uh, and we provide a module for companies to allow them to, uh, implement their own skill sets. [00:20:10] Within this platform and use the skill sets to come up with their own job or role profiles. So for instance, if you have a company that employs junior media and senior consultants, uh, we allowed them to actually place those kinds of jobs within the platform with all their corresponding skills on the appropriate level. [00:20:30] Chris Ward: [00:20:30] Uh, [00:20:30] Paul: [00:20:30] thereby allowing every employee to have their own personal growth profile with their own skills and by means of those performance management modules, such as, uh, exchanging feedback. We can get scores and evaluations on how we perform on those skills. Uh, and the next step, of course. Is to actually, uh, get into conversations with your manager and talk about how you perform and talk about where he wants to go and how you should reach your next step. [00:20:57] So I’m in shorts. Everyone has their own profile with their own skills. They can match their profile against all other available roles within the organization. Uh, most of the time this will result in some sort of gap. Like if you’re a junior and he wants to be a senior, there are of course, some skills that we’ll need to develop. [00:21:18] Um, and we will allow you to develop those skills with our performance management modules, such as exchanging feedback, setting goals, and, uh, conducting conversations. [00:21:29] Chris Ward: [00:21:29] I always wonder with, uh, with platforms like this, how much do you have to customize each. Time. And how possible is that for the companies? [00:21:39] I mean, obviously everyone is going to have very different, uh, structures, very different opportunities, very different budgets and resources available for training and skills. So how, how hard have you found to accommodate all those various different needs, or are you often going in to a. Uh, zero basis, you know, the company, it doesn’t have very much, so you can kind of dictate what it’s going to be. [00:22:06] Paul: [00:22:06] Um, yeah, we provide a certain kind of framework on how companies can actually work with us in terms of both pricing and in terms of how’s we actually use the product. Uh, but during our first conversations with other companies, so in our sales cycle, we will also evaluate whether this company actually makes a good fits for our project products. [00:22:26] So we’re very transparent and very honest in that as well. If we think the company should have no reason to work with us, uh, we tell them that. So we only will once work with companies where we think we can actually help further with our product. Uh, and then when it actually, uh, signed the agreements, or they once worked with us, then the implementation cycle starts and it’s a one or two a video calls for intake. [00:22:50] So actually, um, gather some information about this company and map out this information with how our platform works so we can align on the course. And Ben, before we actually start, there’s an entire day of implementation. On location with the company and with one of our customer success managers stops by and not only explains where all the buttons are, but also explains how we can actually integrate and implement the platform within the organization. [00:23:16] And then, as I mentioned before, after this implementation session, there are also, uh, on a biweekly or monthly basis video calls for a further support. So actually get into platforms who work with any organization is a long, long process, which requires some work and action for both parties. But so far we’ve seen great results. [00:23:37] And in terms of costs, um, yeah, we provide an entry level package. It’s a software as a service. We provide an entry level package, uh, of around 200 euros per month, which equals, uh, about seven euros per user per month. And that price will gradually decrease as companies grow bigger. So, in terms of pricing, we were very competitive. [00:23:59] I think we’re actually one of the cheapest out there. So, uh, so far, no problems from that area. [00:24:06] Chris Ward: [00:24:06] So there are other people doing similar ideas, probably in U S I guess. But, um, you’re not the only person with this idea at the moment. [00:24:15] Paul: [00:24:15] Uh, well, there are some other competitors who have. Similar in some way. Um, such as performance management tools. [00:24:24] As I mentioned, conducting conversations and changing feedback. Uh, only those modules, uh, are not that original. There are many competitors out there who provides these kinds of tools as well. A isn’t in the Netherlands as in the U S or Germany as well. So, uh, in that area, we are another standalone projects. [00:24:45] But as I mentioned before, what makes us unique is that we provide, uh, the insight into your current role and allow employees to match their role with all internal. Uh, opportunities and actually start working towards something. Um, that proposition is very unique with us. I think, uh, there’s only one competitor out there in the U S who kind of has the same idea as we do only we take the way in which employees are evaluated, even one step further, where they rely on, uh, evaluating employees based on a single questionnaire. [00:25:18] So there’s only one moment of measurement. We believe in continuous three 60 degree performance evaluation. So we turn the year, we take out multiple moments to evaluate employee performance on skills and adjust our recommendations accordingly. [00:25:32] Chris Ward: [00:25:32] And is that mostly automated assessments or with people or a mixture of the two? [00:25:39] Paul: [00:25:39] Um, uh, what do you mean by automated assessments? [00:25:44] Chris Ward: [00:25:44] So the, the constant, um. Cycles. You’ve mentioned, is it always check-ins with people to assess, um, progress and things like that? Or is it also machine learning driven, um, apps and things like that? And [00:26:02] Paul: [00:26:02] the assessments are always driven by people? Okay. So, uh, as I mentioned before, the three 60 degree performance evaluations, uh, those evaluations, we can look multiple times a year. [00:26:12] So that means the employees have to evaluate themselves and pass. Ask one or two pairs with other weight them. And there’s also formal evaluation by their manager or coach. The outputs resulting from those evaluations will lead to new scores on their skill levels. And those scores are then used by our tool in terms of machine learning to adjust recommendations for future relevant roles. [00:26:36] Chris Ward: [00:26:36] Okay. And I don’t know if it’s too early to say, but, um, how have. Current clients found, um, using the platform has it, I guess it’s sometimes hard to track, um, children when you don’t know if you’re ever going to have it. So it’s hard to track it whether it’s be successful, not sometimes, but, um, do companies and clients feel like it has, has solved some problems for them? [00:27:03] Paul: [00:27:03] Well, you stay, you stay that nicely because we don’t have the hard numbers yet because we’re not, uh, active for that long. But there’s one company who has actively approached us, um, to start working with us as they experienced a very high level of churn. I think they had 20% sure in three months. So that’s insane. [00:27:22] Uh, so they start working with us, and I think it’s been a few months so far. And. We’re receiving signals from both management and employees that they really liked working with the tool because it’s such transparent insight in not only what they are doing right now, but also what their perspectives are for the future. [00:27:40] So very positive signals and, uh, well we’re actually making a customer case out of it. So I hope in a few months we will actually have the hard numbers to prove what we are stating to do. [00:27:52] Chris Ward: [00:27:52] And I mean, that’s the interesting thing. Sometimes I guess you help highlight. Other problems that may be the, the software itself doesn’t solve, but by the companies asking the questions. [00:28:03] It solves [00:28:07] Paul: [00:28:07] making these kinds of topics, uh, up for debate. More goals because many organizations just don’t discuss these kinds of things and only find out about, uh, employee ambitions during exit interviews. [00:28:18] Chris Ward: [00:28:18] Exactly. And then it’s too late. [00:28:23] I mean, I guess things are relatively new, but what’s on the roadmap for the next six months? I’ll say. [00:28:29] Paul: [00:28:29] Uh, well, some of the roadmap, uh, well, there’s still a lot of work to be done in terms of new functionalities. We are building all kinds of cool stuff. Uh, as I mentioned before, we’re also looking at integrations with other, uh, more bigger core HR systems. [00:28:43] So we will be ready for targeting the larger organizations. Um, uh, we’re also gonna take a critical look at our functionalities right now and just like make a version 2.0 out of it. So just continuous improvement of what we are already supplying to our customers and looking at which features we call so add to make it even more [00:29:05] Chris Ward: [00:29:05] attractive. [00:29:07] And you’ve been, uh, at CS recently. Was that the only kind of large exhibition you’ve been to so far of you’re sipping to others? [00:29:15] Paul: [00:29:15] Um, well, nothing compared to CS. Obviously I find a lighter tech convention, but, uh, yeah, in the Netherlands, we first have some conventions, uh, such as the next web last year, which is pretty big for our kinds of terms, but he was something else entirely. [00:29:34] It’s just massive. [00:29:36] Chris Ward: [00:29:36] Do you find any, any different kind of cultural, uh. Cultural reactions to do what you’re offering? I don’t know if there’s any, I mean, there is definitely work cultural differences between Europe and the U S but I’m guessing this is a relatively common problem no matter what the workplace culture. [00:29:54] Yeah. [00:29:55] Paul: [00:29:55] We were really surprised by that because one of our reasons to actually go through the CES was to really test our proposition on a global level. Just pitch our story to the American audience and get their reaction, get their feedback, and. And we’ve spoken to a lot of Americans in those, we in the, in that week, and we’ve received so much positive response that this was such an original or refreshing concept. [00:30:17] So, uh, and that they think it would also really work within the United States. So talks about the possible lunch customers or partnerships who. As we actually start moving to the U S in a year from now. So it’s been a fruitful, uh, we, [00:30:34] Chris Ward: [00:30:34] yep. And I mean, obviously not everyone is going to have a need for the, for the platform, but anyone who is interested in finding out some of your learnings, if you forgive the pun, you also have this, uh, ebook available. [00:30:49] Um, for people who may be interested in knowing a bit more about what’s going on behind the scenes without actually signing up per se. Exactly. And, [00:31:02] Paul: [00:31:02] uh, we’ve written this ebook, I think one month [00:31:05] Chris Ward: [00:31:05] I’d go, wow. [00:31:08] Paul: [00:31:08] Part of the theory of multiple eBooks. Yeah. Uh, like a, a few months ago, we’ve written out on fire proposition in terms of, uh, how we want to help organizations. [00:31:18] And I think we have to find four phases of HR maturity within every organization. So an entry level organization will only start looking at basic performance management processes. And the larger organizations who are already familiar with these topics will actually start to look at data, HR analytics to refine. [00:31:37] How the organization works. So we want to help every organization move from phase one to phase four and we’ve written some content about that, of which this ebook is the first part of a series. So in order to actually get the attention of companies were still getting to know us. We provide those eBooks, give them that final push to worse working with us. [00:32:00] Chris Ward: [00:32:00] Cool. And I always like to ask, last question. Um, is there anything that we haven’t mentioned that you’d like to make sure is mentioned? [00:32:09] Paul: [00:32:09] Oh, let’s take some questions and [00:32:12] Chris Ward: [00:32:12] no one ever really knows how to respond to, but yeah. Uh, [00:32:17] Paul: [00:32:17] well, we are also, um. Uh, looking at expanding to the German market. So I was wondering if you have any tips or just feedback for us if we have to, um, like, um, make some adjustments or changes to the way we shape our proposition in order to be ready for the German market. [00:32:37] Chris Ward: [00:32:37] Um, I guess firstly, I suppose from the market you’re looking at, you may not have to worry too much about. German, which is odd thing to say. I know, but I’m sure you understand, like especially building art, for example, the sorts of companies that worry about DISA, probably fairly international. Um, there is a little bit, I’m not sure about what it’s like in the Netherlands, but there is a little bit more here around, uh, there’s a lot more culture of, uh, privacy. [00:33:05] And also, um, there’s a little bit within HR departments of them being worried that. Employees might use negative feedback against the company. This happens especially in, um, job interviews and things. I guess when you’re already in the company, it’s probably a bit different, but there is a little bit, it’s a little bit more litigious here maybe than some you might expect, so you have to be a little bit careful with that. [00:33:34] Uh, I’m not 100% sure how that would work in. Context of, of, of your platform. But there is that, um, I will also say that some of the smaller tech companies here especially can be a little immature when it comes to HR processes. So. You’re at that question with what you’re saying with the book of moving people along, they often have nobody, uh, you know, hiring here can be very strange. [00:34:01] Like I’ve had interviews where I’ve spoken to someone twice and then they offered me a job and it’s like, you know, it seems kind of, it almost feels like that was too easy. So, so, so there is that, I suppose it’s, it’s the. The problem you probably have in the Netherlands too, if that there’s not enough people for certain roles, so they’re just so desperate, they’ll just kind of go very, very quickly. [00:34:26] So processes can be immature. Um, yeah, so I guess privacy thing is definitely one, which, I mean, your European company, you probably already have your eye on that. Uh, and yeah. And culture can be a little bit more litigious. Um. Around feedback in, in jobs, which, which is, which is odd. Um, and then you probably just need to check some legal stuff, which I can’t really say exactly, but, um, yeah, it’s growing. [00:34:54] There’s definitely a lot of SMEs, and then you can go bigger companies like Zalando, for example, that are huge, but they probably already doing something, but that could be good. They could be, they have the process, but maybe they have no system. So that actually could be a good opportunity. But they are huge companies, so [00:35:12] Paul: [00:35:12] they already have a system. [00:35:13] You can always switch. [00:35:17] Chris Ward: [00:35:17] Yeah, I mean, Berlin is, is definitely has the same problem as a lot of. American cities and London as well, that people move around a lot because there’s lots of opportunities. Um, and I know, so I do a lot of tech writing work, and that’s a role where often you get a bit stuck. And you leave because you feel like, what do I do next in this company? [00:35:39] So I mean, I personally am people who do similar jobs to me have definitely left companies. Cause you feel like, well, now what? Um, so yeah, it’s exactly that. That’s why this interested me. Cause I’ve definitely been in this situation myself. Uh, yeah. And, and some are better at it than others. I definitely know some companies where they’ve let people switch to being project managers or something like that. [00:36:00] So, um, it really does depend, as you probably know. Um, but yeah, I think it’s too different from the Netherlands, but there’s a few little differences. Um, yeah. Uh, yeah, so I mean, it’s a big market, but, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you’ve also got the UK, which is [00:36:25] Paul: [00:36:25] different. [00:36:27] Chris Ward: [00:36:27] And then France. France is a, France is its own special when it comes to work. [00:36:33] So [00:36:35] Paul: [00:36:35] I think France is a bit more difficult. If there was some culture. [00:36:40] Chris Ward: [00:36:40] Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. But no, I think it would be actually quite clickable here. I definitely know plenty of companies here where this could work very well. If you could figure out what those cultural differences might be and figure them out, I don’t think it’ll be that much different from the Netherlands, so especially the sorts of companies that I’m talking about where they, for international. [00:37:00] Anyway, that was my interview with Paul from learned.io. I hope you enjoyed, I hope you found something interesting there. Now I am back from FOSDEM. That was an interesting, a few days actually different from my usual foster. Um, I kind of went to more side event actually than the main event. I met lots of interesting people. [00:37:21] I’ve got lots of people to follow up with. I end up judging an open source, a grump giving competition, which was quite cool. And you’ve got to help give out $80,000 to worthy open source projects. Um, watch this space for the winners. I can’t tell you who I know, and that was good and coming up very soon. [00:37:40] I will be in Manchester, mostly for fun, uh, around the middle of February, if you feel like saying hi there. And then I will be in Jerusalem talking at a Mexico tech writers conference and then in Tel Aviv for a few days. Again, just for fun. After that, I get back and then I’m off to South by Southwest for 10 days. [00:37:59] So. Lots of places. We can say hi to each other. Um, I have some new articles in progress. I think my article of only came out. I am finishing up, uh, some of my articles on Chronosphere and also Starling ex getting back into the writing game a bit more, bit more time again to start getting back to blogging. [00:38:20] You’d be glad to hear. So my slight dearth of blogging over the past 10 months or so, it was coming to an end. This could be a lot more coming. Very, very soon. So watch without, watch this space. Watch Kristen. She didn’t adopt calm. If you have enjoyed the show, please rate, review, share, spread the word and once again, until next time. [00:38:44] Thank you very much for listening. .