In this episode I speak with Laszlo Toth, Nikolai Astrup, and Dr. Suncheol Gweon from the recent 5GTechritory about the current state, and future promise of 5G. Also in this episode, the Y2K panic, incentivising BitTorrent, Monopoly, tech sexism, and so much more.


SPEAKER: M2 Welcome to the weekly squeak your weekly geeky squeak with me. Christian Schiller. This may be the last episode of the year. I’m not sure. SPEAKER: M4 Maybe I’ll have an interview back one sometime late December before next year. For two weeks time was it next week. I don’t know. This gets very weird this time of the year. Anyway I am back from travels. I am ready to take a little bit of time off but I’ve got a sort of packed episode with links and then a handful of small interviews ready to go for you. So let’s get started. SPEAKER: M5 Firstly an article on Fast Company from Harry McCracken a weird and wonderful look back at the Y2K crisis and I do actually rember this my first ever programming jobs computing jobs were e and about 98 99. So I do remember just just the Y2K crisis and also the dot com bubble bursting just I think I was like 17 so I didn’t really care too much. But I remember it. I also worked at the Millennium Dome the ill fated millennium spectacular in London that opened on January 1st 2000. And that was probably the biggest crisis deepens with you know this is a wonderful article looking back at that time and the disasters that we thought were going to happen but more specifically the literature the the fiction and non-fiction books that sprung out around it as well. Whenever there is a crisis there is money to be made and there was a lot of people who attempted to do so and now they read kind of like somewhat ridiculous tales of things that never happened. So it’s quite a fascinating read back from from this. Well well write article unless Harry just remembers well he’s been doing this for some time so maybe he just remembers some of these books. But yeah quite fascinating. If you remember it even if you do not remember it if you are well anything less than 20 now you won’t remember it. Have a look back and it’s a good it’s a good good lesson learned of how course usually end up going with computing. I think we sort of rumors we may have similar issues with calendars and things like that again. I’m hoping that we have now solve these problems. But if you need a bit of a reminiscent look back on what we used to do and how things used to be and how people really not understand computers at all. Two years ago 10 have a read and another article that takes a little bit of a look back. But with a more contemporary start is an article from Ed Bott on the Dean it about how the desktop P.C. was supposed to die 10 years ago. I think roughly when the iPad was launched and in tablets and well I suppose tablet like devices all emerged and everybody declared the P.C. to be dead. And whilst maybe now not as big or as popular as they used to be they are still very much here. In fact they are starting to experience something of a renaissance. Why. I think people realise they need the more than everyone thought. Maybe easier to manage people maybe just like the form factor. Maybe you can’t do anything on a tablet which actually I would agree with. They’re very good very usable but for a lot of the work I do tablets are still not really the best option. I could do it but they’re not ideal. So this is an article around how the pieces managed to evolve and keep itself relevant and and keep itself buoyant in sales. I suppose and again how we have a tendency to make well journalists I think it’s interesting that both these articles by journalists have complained about how journalists have a tendency to make big bold statements that turn out not to be true. And I wonder if that will keep happening and what will be the stories this year we’ll look back on in 10 years time and think that didn’t quite happen did it. I I probably assume there will be a few but still if you fancy another trip down memory lane and have a rate of this and see how laptops did survive and it’s mostly things around wait battery performance things like that a modern laptop is so light in comparison to a laptop from ten years ago that you barely notice it and you barely notice the difference between a laptop and a tablet anyway. So enjoy reading on your laptop and if you have any comments or questions please let me know on your laptop or your tablet or your phone whatever you prefer to use. Christine Gillette dot com slash contact. Another poster from the dean it from Chris on the technically incorrect column. Yay. Tucker’s got his sexism back. This is an unfortunate article. I think something we thought we were trying we were hoping we ever started to solve things like booth babes and inappropriate stereotype ization stereo stereotype nation. I’m not sure if that’s a word. It is now and misogyny nation that is also not a word. I’m not sure of women in tech things like booth babes. Yes as Rudy mentioned I know Kate covered this when we used to do the podcast together sometime ago and for the most part things got a little bit better. SPEAKER: M13 But then in the past few months we’ve seen some rather poor examples of it happening again and to be honest with you I think these are not isolated examples. There are plenty of examples like this. The male female gender stereotype possibly caused by the lack of diversity but also I think sometimes used somewhat intentionally to appeal to certain subsets of people and also maybe intentionally antagonize sometimes which is irritating but that’s the impression some people want to give. So the examples in this article are the recent peloton ad I haven’t seen this peloton doesn’t exist here. About a wife being bought this smart bike for Christmas and being so happy and it being somewhat sexist because she’d want to lose weight etc etc.. SPEAKER: M5 Looking at the video now you really need to vote it anyway. That’s by the by it’s a somewhat outdated treatment of the whole thing. SPEAKER: M13 Women already get enough pressure about body image as it is and having an ad like this doesn’t help. It’s not even necessary. People can just want to be fit without having to mention words like that and then make people feel bad although that is of course how fitness tends to sell. SPEAKER: M5 Unfortunately not unusual. And then this is rather peculiar one Escobar. This is actually something I should have covered a little bit further back. Actually Roberto Escobar the brother of the infamous drug lord releasing his smartphone. And I mean he’s the brother of a drug lord I had and what you would expect him to do but released an ad for his phone with scantily clad women. This is a phone that I think will definitely appeal to a certain group of people. And this ad will probably help with that. I don’t necessarily think that the target audience is going to be put off by this ad but it’s a shame that it has to be that way. These are just two examples I’m sure there are plenty more if you can think of any more then. Well I don’t if I want to see them but it would be interesting to maybe share and shame them if they’re more obscure ones and definitely if you’re from a different country not a Western country I know sometimes the sexism in advertising is probably even worse in other places. SPEAKER: M13 But we do not always see it outside of the Western bubble. So I’d be interested in seeing any of those examples of anyone What do you think should have been done could be done instead of such a kind of obvious blatant shitty sell I suppose. SPEAKER: M4 And now hopefully moving forward into the future leaving behind some of the past. An article in The Guardian from Alex Hearn 2010 predictions for 2020. I could see everyone’s going to do 20 aren’t they moving into 2020. Well I think I did seven that didn’t spot the potential marketing bragging rights there. Anyway there’s actually I quite like some of these are quite different. There are different sorts of trenches on the usually you might expect. I guess the most obvious one is number one the Tesla truck who will not ship and wasn’t even expecting it to ship in 2020 but that’s his prediction. And he also mentions things like American products like you duplex not coming to Europe again that does not surprise me. Hadn’t even thought about it. It does not surprise me in the slightest. Generally we’re fairly left behind here but also something like duplex I think would meet a lot of richly barriers pushback here in Europe advertising coming to smart speakers. I’m actually surprised this is not the case already. I don’t think smart speakers have been as popular as everyone anticipated but still if there is a spate of advertising it will come. I expect that maybe in 2020 nicely connected into my interviews for this episode 5G will become meaningful. I haven’t got round yet to do my write up of 5G territory but this is definitely something that was mentioned quite a lot trying to make 5G meaningful to people not just this big thing that is coming. People don’t really understand. But why should they care. How would it be useful to them on their day to day basis. A lot of the 5G selling so far has been more on the side of appealing to business and implementers which is fine that makes sense. But to to get momentum behind it. I think the public now needs to understand why it will be useful to them. And then two more that I will pull out is related to one of the earlier ones that Alexa’s growth will probably slow down. I think that’s relating to maybe reaching seemingly market saturation for the Smart speakers that people want or don’t want. And the VR will have a second comeback. Mostly thanks to mostly thanks to the new Half-Life game I haven’t really followed VR. I find VR hard to use unfortunately because of the glasses I wear and my poor vision. If I don’t wear glasses so I haven’t really experienced it very much but I think it’s also one of those technologies that maybe has not lifted off as much as people would have hoped. So we will see the eye has been slated for death and refrigeration many many times. So on the note of best of roundups I am publishing my predictions for 2020 for open source design. It should come out hopefully in the next week or so. It’s not quite yet but it should come out soon. So look out for that now getting a little bit into crypto space. SPEAKER: M5 I have always thought in the back of my mind that there is one technology one project on protocol that has existed for some time that was always a bit like block chain but somewhat goes unnoticed in the discussions of chain that being BitTorrent a peer to peer mostly decentralized technology that was used for a variety of means shall we say just like plucking but albeit was popular still is popular. And this article from John Backus on the medium he goes into. Would the experience of BitTorrent be better if there was a token incentivizing people to be good sharers as opposed to what most people do which is download something then vanish again. Whereas actually the network relies on people to stick around and continue to share. It’s an interesting insight. I don’t know if it would make a difference if it were to be gamed and he covers some of the potential flaws in his ideas but also it’s probably more that the protocol is too well established to introduce anything so kind of set that such a big change into it. SPEAKER: M3 At this point anyway but still interesting. It’s something I’ve actually thought about quite a lot and how BitTorrent relates to block chain. So interesting to see that someone else was thinking about it too. Continuing on the decentralized bent. This was an article that was widely reported. I am mostly referring here to the one from decrypt a block chain mostly block chain publication on how Twitter is creating a small team of individuals to look into decentralizing the platform which I find quite interesting. A bit like Mastodon I guess I don’t know how they would monetize this. I don’t know how this would work but anyway interesting to see they’re looking into it and that Twitter all sort of looking into how they move on from their current iteration and a guess solve some of their issues. Definitely not all of their issues but some of them not much detail on this right now. But watch this space could be interesting even if it’s just a research project to help other people maybe implement more viable alternatives in the future. And finally my tech roundup. This is an article on the Atlantic Samoan stilts off on prisoners who learned to code is actually quite a nice article. I really enjoyed reading this. Specifically focus around some programs in the US and around their experiences with slack but employing and giving a chance to prisoners who want to learn to code who have learnt to code in prison and giving them jobs and in the most part they’re working up very well actually and then getting offered proper full time normal people jobs eventually as well which is great to hear and having a meaningful existence is always something that will keep well not always more likely to keep people kind of from reoffending. This is a great article about about these programs and I’d love to hear more of them. I might actually dig into interviewing some of the projects mentioned here to to find out a bit more about the program because I think it’s a it’s one of the great examples when tech companies actually do something very meaningful and very useful and advantage people who are often quite marginalized because yeah because getting out of prison getting out of the institutionalization of it is very very difficult. So it’s great to see that people give people a second chance in in the in the future as it were not the kind of learning skills that are not so useful to someone in getting a decent job and in the modern era. So great read. Have a great day and I will attempt to get more detail with some of the people mentioned this article in the future. Now an article on wired from will Bedingfield. This was actually something I read this was flying. Probably not the best idea but it’s a story about how physics explains although there’s other reasons as well why everyone’s kind of fear. SPEAKER: M5 Not everyone’s fear one of people’s fears about someone wildly trying to open the airplane doors in flight are not actually possible. There have been a couple of recent examples of people attempting to do so usually under the influence of alcohol but actually as this article details it’s not possible during a flight and when you hear the calls from the captain to the crew to setting doors to cross checked the manual to automatic etc. They are actually handing over control of the doors to the pilot. I never knew this so that those can’t even be opened. Anyway that big handle cannot be moved until the pilot disengages that and actually really the only times it’s possible to open the doors are in takeoff and landing. So a very small part of a flight. Also physics air pressure means that it would be nearly impossible to open it anyway because at the weight of difference in air pressure. So all these kind of crazy airplane movies are not really strictly very true. So let that reassure you but possibly more concerning. SPEAKER: M4 I’ve also thought about this as well. Actually the little tiny windows are maybe a potential places where disaster could strike. So yeah don’t don’t don’t hammer those windows. Not that you have to but those little tiny pieces of plastic in glass are vulnerable ones. But don’t worry about the door unless you’re taking off or landing so sit yourself assured or not as the case may be by having a quick read of this article. SPEAKER: M3 If you’re flying anywhere this holiday season next an article on an from Kate raw earth on the origins of monopoly. This is a story I have. I already knew actually anti monopoly the landlord game were some of the original versions. I think landlord game was the original original of monopoly. The version we know of monopoly is not the original game. In fact it is quite the opposite of what the Creator intended designed during the Great Depression. It was actually designed to help people learn the perils of capitalism not become petty capitalism themselves. And when it got sold to the mainstream not only was the game twisted in terms of its message but also the original designer was pretty much blocked out of the picture and Knicks saw next to nothing out of their design. SPEAKER: M4 In fact no one even realizes it happened for many years later and this is not an uncommon story. In the earlier times of patents and kind of a mass commercialization I suppose people hadn’t really figured out what this meant yet so it was hard sometimes for people to understand or take advantage of it. And now the landlord’s game has reappeared. I think anti monopoly as well. I’m not a hundred percent sure if that’s actually the same thing. Alternative versions of the dreaded game and as a as a hardcore game player monopoly is like a curse word in my community but still it’s interesting to read the here to history and origin stories of one of the world’s most famous games. And I’d be interested to actually play the original to see if it’s any better shall we say less random anyone played it. I’d love to hear if you have played anti monopoly the landlord’s game. Let me know. Is it any better. Is it worthwhile putting up with Sims fluid mechanics to learn the real origins of the game. Love to hear from you again. Should dot com slash contact. And finally British elections just happened. I got way too invested this time I haven’t actually voted in the country for 15 years but I happen to be in the country this time so I voted got very disappointed when things did not go the way I wanted. SPEAKER: M13 Actually they went the way I expected but the way I wanted but one of the flaws with the British system is this first past the post system which is antiquated and benefits certain parties over others and means that a lot of the time votes are somewhat wasted and do not represent the actual way that people do vote in electorates interestingly a few years back there was a referendum to change the system that proposed a representation system somewhat like the one in Australia where the system is very different. SPEAKER: M5 I also vote and it has its problems but I kind of much prefer it because of this. This way that you get a more broad spread and this article on the independent from Adam forest details what the British Parliament might have been like had a proportional representation. SPEAKER: M3 And surprisingly it’s very different. It would have still been a lot of conservative votes but there would probably be a hung parliament with more for labour more for the Lib Dems more for the Greens more for the Brexit party more for the smaller parties. Basically this would have meant a more harder parliament to get policy through but maybe a more balanced more nuanced or interesting parliament too. Anyway this is all pure conjecture because the system is not going to change anytime soon especially with a conservative government. Who are the ones that really benefit from it. So who knows. Anyway. Interesting conjecture. I don’t really want to get too involved in politics right now but it’s something I’ve often thought about. So it was appropriate that this popped up and I found it quite fascinating. SPEAKER: M5 Now I have three interviews for you from 5G tech chief and I was recently out talking about progress and policy behind 5G. SPEAKER: M4 A lot of these interviews are quite short. The first one especially and the first one and three of us journalists had a five minute interview with Nikolai Astra the minister of digitization for Norway. So first you will hear from two friends of mine also asking Kristian annuals his question for me but I thought it included anyway the other questions were just as interesting. So enjoy that second I have an interview with Dr Sun Jorg one from Korea from he’s done a lot of things with regards to telecoms in Korea. SPEAKER: M5 So that is my second interview and then finally the head of public policy for Europe for the GSM a sort of mobile industry body Laszlo off site. Enjoy. SPEAKER: M6 So are you actually involved in startup policy. Startup Yeah startup polio no. And what do you think are the main things to do in this field for you. SPEAKER: M7 Well I think if we are to achieve the ambitions that we have for the realisation in Norway not least in the public sector we need to cooperate with the private sector and in order to increase innovation I think we need to involve the startup community even more in this ization of our public sector. So I’ve started working on a new program which is aimed at involving startups more and in public services. In the years to come. SPEAKER: M6 Are you looking at the taxation issues with stock options. SPEAKER: M7 We have improved the stock option taxation system for startups in Norway both for way twice actually. They would always say it’s not good enough but it’s at least an improvement. But I think with the public purchasing power that we have and the fact that we spend about 55 billion euros a year in public purchasing that is I think an important driving force also for startups. So we need to be. We need to buy their products and services to help them scale in the future. The problem in Norway as in Europe is not startups it’s scale ups. SPEAKER: M11 Notice a lot of EU countries are waiting for other EU countries to decide on whether to allow halfway on their on their networks to supply parts. SPEAKER: M10 Norway being an EU member but not an EU member. What is your position are you are you are you waiting for the EU to make a decision or do you feel free enough to make your own on this on this part. SPEAKER: M7 Well by Christmas all of our operators will have chosen their vendors so tour operators already chosen members on the last one the biggest one will choose before Christmas. So we don’t exclude any vendors on the wood 5G us for 4G. We have a good dialogue with the operators on security was our discussion on security as with them not with the vendors and you you set to set the standards for security from the government side and operators will have to follow those that we talk to the operators and then the operators to serve others. But the government does not exclude any vendors right. SPEAKER: M11 Okay. Thanks. I’m asking a completely different question and something actually that I pick up from your panel. Something that interests me a lot. You talked about with the rise of A.I. we need to make sure that algorithms and machine learning models are diverse. How how would you recommend to Norway’s own innovators and entrepreneurs or from the region to increase diversity in a region that is traditionally fairly monocultural. How can they learn and then change US models. SPEAKER: M9 Diversity is about many things it’s also about gender balance. So we need to recruit more women into technology in the field of ecology. We’re working on that but I think this is very important because A.I. is going to affect every aspect of society and we can’t leave to half of the population to develop solutions for the whole of society. So this is something we need to work on not only in Norway but I think also in tech communities all over the place. And of course I was just on the panel when just men. Yeah they’re mostly men in this conference. So I think it’s not only about multiculturalism it’s also about gender diversity. Both are important. The example I used in the panel I think illustrates this very well with the sensor developed by a white man who was being tested if it worked on different color of skin. If we are to get that kind of bias into our algorithms that we were supposed to use for for instance public sector decision making that affect people’s lives. Then we have a huge problem. So we need to get it right from the outset. Otherwise people are going to lose trust. I think trust is maybe the most important capital in the age of digital transmission you were so you you’re the minister digitalization of Norway and your neighbors in Denmark. SPEAKER: M6 I have an ambassador tech ambassador in Silicon Valley. Do you see the receipt as a trend of the government paying more attention to the tech. And who do you think Norway would also consider sending someone to Silicon Valley to lobby your interests. SPEAKER: M9 Well we have a big office in Silicon Valley and the US so that they perform much of the same tasks that the administration does. All right. And of course we have a minister visualization so that that trumps ambassador I guess. But yes this is going to be more important and is going to be important also because in my view we need to engage more with the big tech companies on many important issues. But in order to realize the potential digitization we need to work horizontally not only vertically governments work vertically with a minister on top tier responsibility but digitization is about what happens between those verticals. And that’s why the prime minister of Norway decided to create this post in January. So if we are to go from where we are today to where we want to be then we need to step up our work in isolation. SPEAKER: M12 I did see on your initial profile I’m not seeing it in your badge about. You had it here. I think the way to go though anyway the convergence. Yes. And I was actually interested to know what that meant to you or what it used to mean is you know having it on your badge now so maybe you’ve changed the job but what does convergence mean. SPEAKER: M14 Usually the 4G or 5G stays just to like reminding me you made the demo of a kind of technology or just like the information technology or communication technology. But the convergence means working me to other industries like automobile industries or like a fashion industry or education health care. It doesn’t matter so which means the iced tea is expands to the other industries get the definition with the convergence for me. SPEAKER: M12 And you had some interesting examples in the presentation you did earlier for entertainment as well which I think you already have in Korea. Virtual performers and are they popular. SPEAKER: M8 It’s you know popular about the imagery of telephone operator would like a show off for lack of vision. So I think there’s two very extensive which means the first TV deal for example they have to merge to come to us on it day after your terms stitching on Picasso. You mean do you know enough to matter stitching is the one video on video saying I can make this smoother if you connect to each other. So in the case of VR and then you can have it the way that we are gear and then you can see the 360 degrees on it. If you just to stay there and then you can just to watch this and you can watch there’s a front TV and then you can just turn around and you can see the audience. It’s very complicated also sounded very complicated. For example you can just watch the fun. You can he have to hear the different sound and then you can just turn around your head and you can just do the right you’re in there. So it’s very shitty means the cost are right for making that kind of a virtuous tattoo you or I could vote your eyes or I could dance like the teachings. So for example as you press case and they invest a lot of money in this special study you own it and then the reader I lost touch it at dancing and then just customize it is joining the dance and they’re just finishing to get a video. They have to make to like the timestamps on it and then and then the customer like in the eye the smartphone and then they can walking together in the dancing together and the talking each other. SPEAKER: M15 You get kind of a very some nice feature for them but the problem is just too expensive. But on other applications you I mentioned to be like possible I could do the presentation possible I broadcasting services on a previous 80 and then they can do it but this tiered and not the high quality because of all loadings period very limited. SPEAKER: M8 In the 80s. So but nowadays it’s they can send more than 20 net issuance. Even the small screen in that they need more than they go almost as close to 20 max in real time. So they can get on tiered of idea. I’m not kidding so they can be very sound. SPEAKER: M12 It’s actually interesting point. I spent a lot of time uploading audio and video video. We have 200 make down but less than 20 up there is always the way it is most people don’t do much uploading but it’s just you. SPEAKER: M8 It’s 15 minutes a better best airport is a guarantee of speed. It’s very important. So sometimes it’s working very very and there’s some spaces in it doesn’t work isn’t a guarantee but they’re still that in the five zero and then they just talk to the. I know though it’s just a tourism operators point so they’re kind of a service to the people a lot of us some influencers in the tourism for pyro or is it more than like a 10 minute ride could one 100 thousand or something that came up guys and then they just tell cooperative support then and then pre-school going around some sun nations send in have us an interview where I can say if the interview is just some localized feature something I think that that’s the very feature for the first US to have sunny but isn’t at the next table is more like it depending on the graphics I guess. SPEAKER: M14 Here they are waiting for a camera aggressive side too because even though the horror range two or like Rada with some of the devices coming out and then they are still not like the set of fire or we did it kind of some functions like that which means if we just the way aggressive centre really medias should be it comes out. That’s very important. So I don’t know what is saw now in Korea steaming Amy’s them or getting the Papua in Papua out and I have no idea. So you are you are you are you know that I hate them though do you know why there is a company in power is and who are important. So usually they kind of like us to call services and usually they have a service on it into a wired connection. But nowadays 5G is a guarantee that hires people on it. So they just cut off the core and the day started. But do they need them were I could you. Have you ever thought a pure if there’s a some more than that and then some of the batteries just Sony so the older I could go to the mobile 87. Yeah yeah but they’re still the wires and then they make us a guarantee that even though there’s not much you could keep your camera in power. So usually we say the comforting power off roading what marriage is over. So it’s a very similar concept for break. Have you read about the data off roading data for us in 80 minutes. In the case of a 3G era the data speed that you do not guarantee data time. So if somebody’s congested they would like to have me do Wi-Fi so they say that they see that data off roading. It’s very very similar concept. They need more compelling power and that I call moving to the cloud and then they’re using that because of the guarantee to the high speed at a time the wires period very low so they cannot guarantee that they can at the operating to the other suburbs. So I think that the doors to gaming now do nowadays a stream video is very common in 88 or so. Next David you sitting like a video game is kind of someone else. SPEAKER: M12 The current launches have had problems but that’s fine. I mean it’s new and some of the points that Cory has been held up here a couple of times as a good example of a 5G rollout and some of the points you made that you sort related to it were geography. It’s relatively small. Most people are in a couple of areas you have a consumer base who like to buy new things and you have a government that is pushing people to do it which any of those. I mean geography is not something people can change that much but any any anything that you’ve learned that you think European countries could learn from to help their rollouts would really surprised you that you and I tell you my wife actually for a UK four months and it’s even just to get out of the mire. SPEAKER: M8 Beth metropolitan area and then it doesn’t work even three years I could steer UK is one of the better places. So at the time I just using the Google maps or anything so it doesn’t work anymore. SPEAKER: M15 So I just stopped my car and downloading the horror a Crocker mass and then it stuck to the driving. So I think that the work concentrated on the even the how way Rachel was so I don’t want to full coverage of it but the they have to move it to the south some of the different cities or something. So I think them Major a road and then they kept to get onto it especially if I was very surprised that the also the subway. I think that’s always a very important places but it’s still not easy. SPEAKER: M12 London is famous for having no network. And we live in Berlin and they actually have coverage. Then how useful it is. But interestingly also you showed the map of 4G coverage which was pretty much everywhere. How long do you think it would take to have 5G to look the same. SPEAKER: M15 I think that they’re just two to two years I guess. It’s very similar way to the 80 cases because of a I didn’t mention about the period for the change in their cell phone. Usually eight months. The average is crazy. So I have two sons and they always a similarity. I need a new phone. I think that these terms same feature at Rikers and they change their phone so which means though. We have a total population of 50 million 50 50 50 million and 50 million so I think that already has changed. It’s just two or two years in the total. So deterrence. Actually we did two years I guess. Also another key factor is a millimeter wave. Yeah. So it’s very key concern. Also the shorts as you mentioned about the millimeter wave. It’s a very different characteristics of the the the like the wave propagation never so I think that there’s a boyband this is the each operator has already a hundred megahertz Bendis with those frequency oxides Sony and there which means that they can’t guarantee to any gigabit pass level but there’s two. The problem is the mass using the method in my mind way so need to be a focus on the very sharp beams on it which means it’s very hard to cover four areas. So I think that in the especially the dense area or I could metropolitan area they can you to come together or you do below 6 and the millimeter way where they can be very extended to the dome would end. It took two bendy sage and wood and 20 geeks. You can be buried because of your stay in the stadium like a football stadium or something and then even though you have more than like 2 10 base stations over there past year the in the world in 50000 to come together. It’s very hard to the working floor. The more than this and then it can be better work. We do some like I believe the way vendors end in supporting either together. So I think that database is a the next step should it be. So you have to be more concerned about the more vendors. So our government already started to ease. Some were looking for the world vendors this whole family services side. So I think that there may be next year another reconstructions coming out in the poor sense. SPEAKER: M12 Two more questions. One I’ll just go from that. You’ve mentioned some some ideas that 5G will help facilitate in the future. Are there any others that you think collect very early or no one is really doing yet but you think will also come because of it too. SPEAKER: M15 They have some problem with even though they just buy your father’s a phone and then I cannot find any difference because of a I already mentioned in the Sunday tenor amongst the not would in ninety five percentage applications is almost guarantee the the 80 percent solved. So I think that the day to find a more varied or valuable application so using the word band is present for four more bands. I think that you must do with service I mentioned that I think that though without that. And then I think the data on other territories is right to rule latency and then I can the more I get some connectivity. It can be if shit means then that the Beatles is Rebel. It’s more and more actually B2B services can be guaranteed because of the net authorizing it a very good function sunny so which means they can own their like a characteristic data. They can make a deal or networks using the net of pricing for. For I have some like iota services on it very low. Ben Bendis but do they need more connectivity. But it’s not adapted to directly to the right inestimable river of any success only so they can have a barrier or when this is an enterprise. And then they can just to the nationwide subsidies only so they can imagine and then they can make a billion smarter by their own. So I think that that’s a very good point. Like next forever. That’s the normal way to use your customers. Yeah I think that there is very hard to find some the. So I think that they especially some the terrible operators is a more focus of the VRA and the more immersive. This tier the device dependent services so that they are waiting with. SPEAKER: M12 And on that I mean some of the the three examples that are often discussed for good 5G roll out a US Korea China all three of those countries make devices that. Europe doesn’t really make any handsets or any devices. Do you think that some of the reason that those three countries have have been able to roll that much quicker because they can supply everything that even in the digital Sweden were or compute ended. SPEAKER: M15 I was very surprised because of the very slow mecca for a handset even though it took years or something but previously. But they are very practical like a war probably. I have heard of a program program program I take Yeah it’s me it’s not just for good showing off too much because it does it work for me. And then they just keep it or even though it’s always been a supplier thing then they look like this very high level. Yeah using this to make it all fun. I like that it’s three four three or four years though that Korea especially working me the freighter where they usually check their phone every six months or so. Yeah because they would that I could send the have some new experience for the new phone but the day was too poor to yield funds only. So I think that there is little some difference. A the culture. I guess they’re more practical and not just poor because it’s not gender. So I think that is from coming from the maybe their own culture or something. Maybe you are paid too much. SPEAKER: M16 Yeah. It’s a matter of public policy for Europe would introduce matters when you might know Jesus may represent mobile network operators. We are a global association. We have offices all around the world at least in Brussels because of the policy of Europe. Yeah and then we work together with our members and mobile operators. My areas to to engage with its regulator is to discuss best practice policy approach. SPEAKER: F1 I think you have a lot of people. This is mostly what I’d be interested in digging into what. What is the Jersey. What is it. What is it there for. SPEAKER: M17 Yeah I’m Jesus mate. Beyond is not just a policy shop. So we also work together with our members to support them in developing new and innovative services such as an identity. Now we have to circle back on act now or now party area and beyond. Also there was a conference convening. The industry you mentioned the mobile world congress discussed earlier but also some other conferences. Even in Los Angeles and one in Shanghai and some smaller events they also have data and research on it called the GSM. Intelligence. The aim here is to try to collect data and assess them provide reports and background to the latest trends. SPEAKER: F1 We also do to do sit between regulators and government or what will are the components of the industry that we work most of. SPEAKER: M17 I mostly work with the with the regulatory departments and people in mobile operators. We discuss the latest challenges they face in different markets and also at the EU level. And while we try to come up with an industry view and advocate those. To do relevant policymakers and regulators we also active in member states. Now of course in Brussels with the various institutions but also time to time we will visit some other capitals member states of Europe member states of Europe. SPEAKER: M18 I mean while I cover Europe I mean when was a. I have colleagues peers doing similar things in LatAm or Asia or Africa along with the. SPEAKER: M16 Mutual a trade body a reorganization that gives us trade association about how long it existed. SPEAKER: M18 Ah good question. I should note Bahar. Yeah I think crime was established. SPEAKER: M16 In 1980 something you’ve got now. I need to look it up. But you know it’s I think. We grew a lot over the past few few years as the mobile community finds more and more interest in working together collaborating on different areas. And. SPEAKER: F1 What are some of the biggest challenges you find in Europe. If you have any kind of knowledge of how they might compare to other regions your colleagues work on them they’ll be fantastic. But if not it’s fine. SPEAKER: M19 Yeah I mean what I see there are similar challenges when I see a regular doctor the other colleagues in other regions just to learn from each other what works what not. But the challenges they face and then I’m surprised that many of the challenges are very similar. Maybe the aspects or the approaches are different. But Europe is is unique in a way that there is a legal framework for you know for the union which allow a more harmonized regulatory approach across the region. SPEAKER: M20 This is very important and and we always advocate for a more harmonized policies in Europe because many of these mobile operators work across different countries so therefore for cost and other reasons it’s important for them that there is some consistency in the continent. There’s a lot has I mean I mean telecoms is one of the sectors which is most to deregulatory side mostly harmonised across Europe. If you can study other sectors but still scope what digital seeing a market is far from complete. Major differences if we look at deals for example spectrum policy which is very important for mobile operators the way in which governments decide to make available spectrum under the conditions and the and the way they awards and frequencies are very different. SPEAKER: F2 What you do is a small part of the kind of bigger complication. But this is tendency to think of the European Union as one place. It’s not 27 28 26 different places all with different ways of doing things. SPEAKER: F1 While some of the telcos exist in many of them they have their own policies and their own styles and things like that. And how do you tread that line between wanting to have especially in the fields of telecommunications where it’s largely an advantage people and industry but the companies want to do it the right way as well. And is it a fine line you have to tread quite a lot to get the balance right. SPEAKER: M18 Yes that’s just well that’s what I think you hit the right point is is one of the issues that we obviously that are member states are different. I mean it’s not not you can’t have digital single market without. A general single market. If somebody inputs the costs to deploying that let’s just reduce their prices for full base stations. Besides salaries I mean the telecom operators are one of the biggest employers. So these are very different of course. So to some extent we feel that on some of the areas could be harmonized. Better across Europe. D the recently adopted telecoms regulatory framework accord includes some of these measures is the right step in the right direction but we expected more and more harmonization in Europe when it comes to down at the top. SPEAKER: M21 Oh so you know telecoms is a scale business so. So that’s why it’s important that we see just you know in Europe is also scale. I mean Europe competes with the US and China. SPEAKER: M18 You know the number of operators in the US and China compared to the hundreds of operators in Europe definitely are challenged. SPEAKER: F2 I mostly work with telcos but I was thinking this the other day I was speaking to someone from Korea and I wondered if if if some of the work in Europe would be easier if we had more hardware manufacturers as well as China Korea especially kind the demand and the interest and also people who make this stuff sometimes maybe even having all three in one place makes it easier. And I know you have sort of knocking on Ericsson but they’re not the biggest players and they don’t make really make the devices so much anymore. I don’t know is that a missing piece in Europe. Or is it not really an issue. SPEAKER: M18 Well I mean there’s a lot of discussions about you know the supply chain and the wonders nowadays and Europe and also of course to grow. And then you know while what we see is that indeed those big players like you mentioned Ericsson Nokia are European once and it’s very good and also for us what is important is to have a competitive supply chain where the prices will be sort of competitive competitive level will be innovation. SPEAKER: F5 So we we always encourage competition and more players in that space. So we’re here at this 5G Tipperary. SPEAKER: F1 I wonder a little bit. I don’t know if you do your job within anything related to it around 4G or that feels like maybe there’s an age don’t remember people talking about 4G. Pay attention. Do you think the the the interest and also the time taken to 2 2 2 rollout upgrades is that the same or a little bit longer it a bit shorter. SPEAKER: M18 Than it is. I mean 5G will be more costly to deploy than the previous generation is due to the complexity of may not work. I also had a need for a dancer network two to provide the capacity of the she promises and because the use of higher frequencies so we have estimates and fall for all the regions Europe according to numbers is doing well in terms of trials commercial lunches these days we expect that by 2025 a third of the total connections in Europe will be 5G. However this will leave Europe trailing the leading fighting markets U.S. Japan South Korea which will. Have 50 60 adoption rate by that time. So definitely we encourage policymakers to help accelerate the deployment to 5G. There are certain measures maybe on the cost side spectrum deployment a lot of administrative barriers to licensing. Base stations. This is rubber hits the road and the physical network is built. This is also a challenging topics we talked about fragmentation and harmonization because in many case it depends and not only at national level but local authorities but in so the member states it takes like twelve 24 months to get a license for a new base station. I mean these procedures need to be streamlined and simplified in order to accelerate the rollout was that comparable to the past or is that a newer speed. No no no that’s that’s that’s historical and then but but then I talked about the need for a denser network and so that’s why in 5G. So this challenge will be compounded because you need more base data I mean there is one measure in telecoms called utopian new regulatory framework on small cells. We are waiting for the implementing act for that which will help license I mean there will be no licensing for that houses and prior licensing but this will not solve all issues because for the coverage we also need to macro sites and the people with it we work with you always do enthusiasm or people are getting a little bit tired of the place. Well I mean you know I talked about the the expectations about take up and I think these this reflects the realities of the European market today. Many of the I mean some of the countries like the Nordics will be closer to the leading players better. Many of these operators are still migrating customers to 4G networks. Competitive pressures remain high revenues returns to the negative territory in recent quarters and are estimates to 2025 is that revenues will meet some will be probably flat. So I think it’s a challenging backdrop to this 5G raise at least for Europe. That’s why it’s important to know how regulators and policymakers can help. I mean we see the political ambition and it’s all to talk but we also need some specific concrete measures that will help that in an ideal world. Also acknowledging. SPEAKER: F2 Some of the positives that Europe likes to bring to technology privacy and maybe security that as opposed to say tonight China. We worry about is things to look at. What would you what would you change to make that process much easier. SPEAKER: M19 I think I mean in Europe we have a solid foundation for all these you know the privacy and security regulations we have the GDP are which is coming in kind of the worst under well we and you know we also believes mobile operators that do GDP are as is is the right regulatory framework for privacy. SPEAKER: M18 What we would encourage policymakers to look at these issues in the data economy are more a horizontal base instead of mean you know these things are not only sector specific telecom stuff. Now we talked a lot about the 5G will transform other industries and the verticals and all these horizontal things. So what we would encourage to develop frameworks horizontally across sectors and also consistency with the already existing GDP are. SPEAKER: F2 And so if this event is on next year what do you hope will have happened in the next year now. SPEAKER: M18 That’s a good question. That’s a good question. SPEAKER: F2 I’m not sure how much has changed in the past year. So you just need to know what you hope would change in the next year. SPEAKER: M18 I mean for for next year. We have been we’re looking at a new garden in Brussels new commission and just the past couple of days. Yes. So I think it’s very important. It can give new impetus to the attack policies we see very good signs for example ideas around more focus on European industrial policy that will be very important to help Europe to strengthen some of the capabilities in the digital area cloud supercomputing or other things. So by next year I hope we will see the first results of the work of the new commission and I can only hope that will change the the policy environment to better fortify actually right now. SPEAKER: M22 And will the member states agree that this is it. Let’s see. We’ll see. Good. SPEAKER: M3 Those were my three interviews from the floor at 5:00. You checked every couple of weeks back in Latvia in Riga. Hope you enjoyed that. I have a few articles coming out. I have my revisit Haitians with Linux. I have my interview roundups coming out. I have a recent podcast episode and a lot more coming up very soon. I have actually some posts I just did on tech writing for developers again. You can find those on my writing page at Christmas the dot com stocks writing no events for the year. I think my first confirmed event is going back to South by Southwest in March. Maybe going to see yes if I can get flights last minute at a good price but it’s looking increasingly unlikely that that will be the case. So a lot of potential what my next event will be but in the meantime you can find way more about me. Christine your dot com support what I do. I read my previous writing. Listen to previous episodes of the podcast. I may have one more before the end of the year. SPEAKER: M2 I think I probably will. So I won’t wish you good wishes right now but I wish you a happy Christmas I wish you Happy New Year but I wish you Happy Christmas. I hope whatever you do however you celebrate it whether you like it or not I’m a bit of a Christmas Grinch. So I will go to two into depths of celebratory speech here. SPEAKER: M3 Enjoy it. And until next time if you have been. Thank you very much for listening.